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Marlona Sky
Global Criminal Countdown
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Posted - 2011.01.16 06:49:00 -
[1]
It's funny to see power block members protest the removal of jump bridges because it would hurt small alliances.
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Marlona Sky
Global Criminal Countdown
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Posted - 2011.01.16 07:46:00 -
[2]
Originally by: Dr Cheeto
Originally by: Marlona Sky It's funny to see power block members protest the removal of jump bridges because it would hurt small alliances.
It's funny to see hisec mission runners give their opinion as to why jump bridges should be removed.
I'm outlaw...
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Marlona Sky
Global Criminal Countdown
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Posted - 2011.01.16 13:18:00 -
[3]
It's time to put effort back into 0.0 logistics and power projection. If you are too lazy for the logistics part than I suggest you go back to high sec. If you are too lazy to travel 30 jumps to find a fight then I suggest you not blue everything within 30 jumps. That or go to low sec.
People lived in all reaches of 0.0 long before jump bridges. That was also before jump frieghters, blockade runners with covert ops cloaks, black ops with covert bridge which blockade runners could take and worm holes that can connect high sec to 0.0 systems.
There is simply far too many 0.0 residents that can't pop Jita's tit out of their mouth. Far too many that feel that they should be able to zip across the map with little to no effort simple to blob out some small entity who just set up a small POS 50 jumps away.
But please, keep the tears flowing that are bases of a possibility that jump bridges might be removed and because of that, your entire hope of survival in 0.0 is crushed. They taste delicious!
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Marlona Sky
Global Criminal Countdown
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Posted - 2011.01.16 13:43:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Rudgier Thorrin In other words: if you have a life and don't want to pay RL money for hours of "click gate -> click warp to 0 -> click jump -> repeat 30 times to get anywhere " then gtfo, we hardcore basement PVPers are so much better than thou
Don't blue as many people and you won't have to travel 30 jumps to get a fight. Is this concept really that difficult?
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Marlona Sky
Global Criminal Countdown
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Posted - 2011.01.16 14:58:00 -
[5]
There are three things that are facts:
1) The removal of jump bridges will not be the only adjustment CCP will make to balance the current situation in 0.0
2) CCP won't make any changes unless they can present it as an expansion instead of a patch to start the healing now. It will be at least six months.
3) There will be players who can't or won't adapt to the change and will move back to high sec.
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Marlona Sky
Global Criminal Countdown
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Posted - 2011.01.16 15:02:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Pirokobo Edited by: Pirokobo on 16/01/2011 14:41:13 Now, as for LEGITIMATE ideas as to bridges, there are a bunch of possibilities CCP could do.
They could limit bridges as they are to in-region links only. This would have the effect of slowing down travel a bit by forcing people to gate between regions.
They could limit bridges to one bridge per system, perhaps with a range boost. This would encourage alliances to place bridges such that they get the most "mileage" out of each one. It would almost certainly encourage the construction of new stations as the geographic value of space is reassessed.
They could make the operation cost of bridges increase faster then linearly with the length of the bridge chain. Another interesting mechanic, one which would target the very long chains in the north.
They could adjust the cost based on how many bridges an alliance has online. Same effect as the previous idea, but probably easier to implement.
All of your ideas do either nothing or very little to change the situation. Removing them completely is not only the easiest but also the best way to help fix the problems.
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Marlona Sky
Global Criminal Countdown
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Posted - 2011.01.16 15:37:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Pirokobo As long as NPC nullsec exists it's possible to project power pretty much anywhere with relative impunity.
Consider:
When SOLODRAKBANSOLODRAKBANSO flattened Atlas Alliance's house of cards, we didn't have jump bridges.
Wow. I didn't realize SOLODRAKEBAN did it all by themselves. It is nice to see one alliance take on another alliance without calling for backup from 20+ other alliances on their blue list.
I tip my hat to you good sir. Now to deal with all those false reports of who was involved and to find that Atlas Camera guy who apparently faked the live feed showing dozens of alliances vs. just Atlas. I wonder how he did it?...
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Marlona Sky
Global Criminal Countdown
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Posted - 2011.01.17 05:32:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Samjack2 Or in simple terms. CSM can go to ****ing hell. A. Cyno spool up... ok a get it. But a frekin 30 second spool up means your cyno ship better be a ****in carrier itself unless you want it dead. Cyno on the field means people are gunna want to run or fight. Nothing was more awesom than dropping SC's onto the heads of invaders. B. Titan bridging HAS to remain specific to titans. Otherwise you might as well make them 10 isk. A titan=dred+rorqual. It can fit a clone vat bay, mindlinks, XL guns, and the *new* DD. Basically you say a supercap is a 'i win button' bull****. A TITAN is an 'i win' button. And even now they are getting swamped and taken down. C. SC's shouldnt be nerfed. They are dying just fine. You nerf them and we're gunna see ****ing 2000 man battles of drake/male blobs... or a crash in the market for minerals. I want my 20bil ISK back if your gunna THINK about touching my wyvern. D. Bot miners. GET RID OF THEM. Simple. CCP throws them to the side and says 'we'll deal with it'. Well you better deal with it soon. i used to be able to actually mine ice and make a killing. Now we got bot miners in mackinraws that undock in blobs of 20-30 with an orca+links in a safe spot and they just sit there and **** up the market.
TL;DR CSM pull your head out of your ass and get to know your players. Who the **** even let 7 year olds on the CSM? BRING BACK CCP CLAW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Wow you're dumb.
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Marlona Sky
Global Criminal Countdown
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Posted - 2011.01.17 13:02:00 -
[9]
Anyone who thinks (hopes?) CCP will remove jump bridges and do nothing else to balance other issues that deal with power blocks, logistics and sov is a fool.
What needs to happen now is some creative thinking by the player base, CSM and ultimately CCP.
Some issues that players have about it is minerals. We all would love to be able to be self sufficient deep into 0.0 but the obvious facts are some regions are laced with limitless money opportunities while others are absolute utter ****. Those crap regions have options though. They can be upgraded in a variety of ways. Military upgrades so you can run Sanctums 23/7 is not your only option.
The industrial upgrade provides a way for you to get the minerals you need to survive out there. There is also wormhole upgrades to open up ways to possibly get quickly to empire or other parts of the university to get your PvP rocks off. Some upgrade to do mini-professions but I have no clue what they are talking about really.
Now before you go raging about how you can make a lot more money running Sanctums instead of mining consider the fact that those minerals will be a lot more valuable if they don't have to compete with Jita prices way out in the far reaches of 0.0. Now if the tables or minerals available is not up to what it needs to be then CCP can make adjustments. The bottom line is you don't have to suck Jita's tit to get the minerals you need to survive.
Of course all this fun mining will draw attention and brace yourselves. You might actually need some protection doing it. Don't let some lone AFK ***** ass cloaker get the best of you and shut down your whole mining operation. Maybe this means a boost for durability for mining ships? More things to consider. Also don't forget it may result is some bad guys coming to shut the operation down and viola, you got PvP on your hands and you didn't have to fly those pesky 30 jumps everyone was complaining about to get those good fights.
Static moon goo needs to be done away with too. How is up for debate as well. Of course I expect every entity that is currently lapping up the moon goo to rage completely at this idea. After all they fought long and hard to get it. It's not like it was just tossed on their lap in their already fortified power block. Right? Anyways, in order to pull off removing static moon goo it most likely would required a POS overhaul. I'm sure no one would miss the current nightmare we have today.
Other things would deal with super caps and capitals in general. Lowering their jump range? Cyno spool up timers? Remove titan jump bridge as well? All of these things need to be considered.
Let's not forget about how sov works. I believe alliances should be allowed to have those great friends if they want, but where is the balance in that? I believe it should not be possible to get a system sov level to level 5 unless all adjacent systems are under your alliances sov. Blue or not, alliance borders should be vulnerable and players should patrol and such to keep it secure. No more AFK secure stuff. Again, my opinion of one of the things that can be done.
All in all there is a dozen thing that can be adjusted to make 0.0 a lot more exciting than the mess it is right now. So now is the time to start thinking of reasonable changes that would help.
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Marlona Sky
Global Criminal Countdown
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Posted - 2011.01.17 13:42:00 -
[10]
Originally by: captain foivos As an aside to dear Greyscale, I have lived in and out of 0.0 the last couple years and I have yet to see a dime of moongoo money. Why? Because all moons worth having are currently under the hand of large alliances' leadership groups. Regular players never see any money from moons because everyone knows where to find the good stuff, and the group with more firepower almost inevitably ends up controlling the moon.
Which is why removing the static part of 'static moon goo' needs to happen along with other things like removing jump bridges. And stop with the bull**** over priced Dreadnought line. Even if they removed the jump bridge ability from titans or changed it so it was forced jumped at the end of its bridge to the destination, it is still very powerful.
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Marlona Sky
Global Criminal Countdown
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Posted - 2011.01.17 22:15:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Marlona Sky on 17/01/2011 22:16:57
Originally by: Niccolo Paganini Removing jump bridges will prevent smaller corps from holding territory.
This statement is so ****ing stupid.
6000+ people rapidly descending upon a small alliance of 100 who just setup shop 4 regions away and stamping them out of existence is what is keeping small corps/alliance from holding territory. Not because they couldn't setup a jump bridge.
Lets see this from a small entities perspective:
Option #1) If left along long enough to gain the sov level, we can put up a jump bridge to ease our logistics. At the same time because of jump bridges, a power block of possible 22k+ can decent upon our medium tower and blow it into atoms in a matter of a couple minutes, whenever the mood strikes them.
Option #2) Without a jump bridge, our logistics will be much more difficult. We will have to rely on jump freighters, blockade runners with covert ops cloak, black ops covert jump bridge to get the blockade runners around gate camps, possible shortcuts thru wormhole space, upgrading a system with the mining upgrade so we can get all the ore we need to build ships, reprocess the modules from ratting/plexing/anomolies to get minerals we can't mine, etc. But with jump bridges gone, we don't have to worry about a large power block getting here in 5 minutes just to vaporize our POS and operation for the lulz because we are more than 10 minutes away for their entire coalition to form up and take the gates here. Any immediate threats will be of a much, much smaller force, something we could possibly handle instead of 1000+ vs. 100 of us.
Now what in the **** option do you think they would rather have? Which one would give them a better chance in 0.0 without being part of a power block? And yes, if your a renter, your part of the power block, your just paying for friends.
And again, there is a lot of other things that can be adjusted to improve mining, POS work, moon goo, etc. Now is the time to discuss those instead of just being super focused on this one item. If we don't, then 6 months will go by and because nothing else was hammered out, CCP just might do the easy right click and delete without doing anything you all so fear.
It's time for everyone to wake up, smell the cake and get back in shape and stop being lazy. You don't want to be bored to tears doing the boring **** you would need to do without jump bridges, well, what aspects about said boring **** could be changed to make it a lot more interesting.
No I'm not about to mine ****ing ice or whatever rock is FOTM no matter how exciting it is with it dripping **** in 3D with endless cake being feed to me. I would rather be blowing up someones ship. But in if something can be done to make it more lively then I'm all for putting whatever :effort: it takes to get it there for my fellow EVE pilot.
So, forget about the jump bridges, pretend they will be gone no matter what, what ideas no matter how small would you suggest to keep the game fun instead of sucks balls... Go!:
Suggestions Below This Line 8===============================================================D
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Marlona Sky
Global Criminal Countdown
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Posted - 2011.01.17 22:33:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Venkul Mul And who will mine the minerals for your ships?In your nice dream universe have you ever thought about the little problem that you will have to spend time protecting the miners after the ease of transportation from empire has been removed?
I have no problem defending miners.
Originally by: Venkul Mul Or you think you will be only the guy that will have the fun to kill the miners, never the one that will have hours of guard duty defending them?
Or I could just pay more for my stuff because I can't be bothered to do guard duty. It all really comes down to supply and demand. If I have the mentality of not wanting to spend time going the grocery store to buy my own food, prep the food and cook it, in order to actually eat. Well then I will be paying more to eat out and order delivery. I get more time on my hands but at a cost. Right now, using the current situation in 0.0, eating out and ordering delivery is vastly cheaper than going to the grocery store to do it all yourself.
That is completely backwards and unbalanced don't you think?
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Marlona Sky
Global Criminal Countdown
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Posted - 2011.01.17 22:59:00 -
[13]
Fine, I'll go first...
- Change the POS refiner so it is possible to get 100% yield just like when refining ice at the POS.
- Introduce something like chemistry/alchemy/weird science **** so that it is possible to combine certain ores and some chemical reaction would yield some other ore not native to your area, but with a heavy loss. i.e. - I did a reaction that combined 10 different high end ores and produced 1 other high end ore.
- Increase mining barge survivability with more EHP so they can last a while for defenders to engage the attackers.
- Introduce the ability to hack POS Silo's to nibble a bit from what is inside. Possible from a covert ops ship with the hacker module or something. Amount nibbled is dependent on average traffic in system per day. The more traffic, the less nibbled. If it is an AFK tech moon that no one bothers to come in system except to empty it every couple weeks and the traffic is all but non-existent, then the amount nibbled would be lucrative. Any total amount nibbled throughout the day should be no more than 10% of what it mined. Hacker can only hack a specific silo once per day, subject to it failing based on skills. If hack fails, then you are decloaked and it is probably time to GTFO!
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Marlona Sky
Global Criminal Countdown
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Posted - 2011.01.20 16:20:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Ephemeron The only thing I care about is good PvP, strategic and tactical
All of those are based on point of view. Right now power blocks things putting as many people into once system to lag it out, is a tactic and a strategy. Also their version of good PvP is 50 of them verses 5 of you. Also with you not loading grid. Now that is a good fight for them. Any changes to take those tactics, strategy and their version of a good fight, will result in them fighting any change and raging on the forums as loud as possible to keep it from happening.
In my opinion there is no good PvP left in 0.0 and the only tactic/strategy is blob the **** out of the other person where a players skills, fitting, even ship sometimes is all irrelevant.
Also, get rid of static moon income already! So ****ing stupid that this is still around.
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Marlona Sky
Global Criminal Countdown
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Posted - 2011.01.20 18:58:00 -
[15]
Originally by: FinnAgain Zero Feel free to actually address the facts and the arguments made. It's neat.
People have been addressing facts about what jump bridges doing left and right all through the forums. You just have the mindset to spin their words, lie, throw out statements like they are the law of all things, use scare tactics like saying, "It will just cause larger blobs", "You only hurt yourself", "It will kill any hope of small alliances in 0.0", etc.... or just flat out ignore what people are saying.
The bottom line is you are scared. You are scared that your 22,000 (or is it higher?) man super coalition will shatter. You are scared to have enemies that are closer than three regions away. You are scared that you will have to *gasp* use resources in your area to get supplies from instead of having everything stamped with "Made in Jita" all over it. The thing you are scared of most, is effort. This is not WoW or Hello Kitty Online. Effort should yield reward. You have it in your mind that it will be the end of the game as we know it if the jump bridge is removed. You like to sling "Adapt or die!" around all the damn time. So I say to you, if CCP does remove jump bridges... Adapt or die!
Me personally, I don't like coalitions. Never have. Even before jump bridges. There is already a lot of mechanics to enable people to be ~friends~ in the game. You can be in the same corp, and then if enough corps like each other, you can make an alliance. This is fine. A couple of alliances want to be blue to accomplish a goal, now we are starting to get out of hand.
The best example of going over the top with standings of course is the Northern Coalition. How many alliances are blue to each other? I mean including renters and pets (sorry but your part of it even if you claim your not, if your blue your in) I mean it is something like 30+ or something. Perhaps someone could post actual numbers of alliances in the NC and total member count.
If anything, it is just like Super Carriers. One or two on the battlefield is one thing, but when you put like 30+... well, now you hopefully understand what I mean. Oh, and those 30+ super caps are attacking 4 Ferox's and Iteron Mark V. That is the issue. Your just too blind with rage at the idea of having to put forth effort in 0.0 again when it comes to logistics and power projection. But hey, you have your mind made up and even when presented with endless facts, you just choose to ignore/spin everything in hopes that people will change their mind and think power blocks are good for 0.0.
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Marlona Sky
Global Criminal Countdown
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Posted - 2011.01.20 20:47:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Jagga Spikes
Originally by: FinnAgain Zero ...
Originally by: Jagga Spikes
you are taking statements out of context.
No, I'm not. Jump bridges are not an exploit. They are not a tool being used contrary to its designed purpose. They are a tool being used exactly as designed in accord with game mechanics as intended.
POS Bowling was an exploit. JB's are not.
/facepalm
dude, you need to relax and take a deep breath.
He is just arguing to argue at this point. He keeps screaming for people to present facts but he has as of yet to do the same. |
Marlona Sky
Global Criminal Countdown
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Posted - 2011.01.20 22:48:00 -
[17]
CCP should just remove the ability for anyone to use a jump bridge if they have standings and a password. There is no other module that lets someone outside of the alliance, standings blue or not, be able to use it. Outside of being able to go in a POS force field. Which should be changed too.
They should just do a patch right now that eliminates blues from using jump bridges and going in a POS force field even if they are blue. You don't see a blue manning a POS gun on a blues POS just because they are blue do you?
So Finnagain, I suppose you don't think there is a problem with super carriers do you? I mean to change them at all would qualify this game as no longer being a sandbox according to your rules.
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Marlona Sky
Global Criminal Countdown
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Posted - 2011.01.21 00:39:00 -
[18]
Originally by: FinnAgain Zero I've pointed out the fact that the ability to zip around the map is a theoretical and not a pragmatic one as fleets that are out for hours rarely, if ever, have the stamina and will left to go add a few more hours to their night.
So you are saying that in theory large blobs can zip around the map when in fact they really don't?
Also you say it is more of an accurate statement that fleets that are out for hours rarely have the stamina to add more hours to their trip if jump bridges are gone?
Sorry if my depth of vocabulary and word usage is not as vast as yours. I just want to make sure I fully understand what you are saying before I make a reply to it.
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Marlona Sky
Global Criminal Countdown
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Posted - 2011.01.21 20:20:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Eldaec This thread shows exactly the problem with the CSM and taking feedback from this forum.
Actually, the only thing this thread has proven is that Finnagain loves his jump bridges. He manages to make a point to reply to every post that is for a change to jump bridges with arguments that can be directly applied right back at him.
CCP, CSM and many players agree that there needs to be a change. It is time to let this thread, that is nothing more than people debating back and forth, further entrenching each other into what they believe to be so called facts, die.
I suggest we take this over to features and ideas section where we can talk about it.
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Marlona Sky
Global Criminal Countdown
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Posted - 2011.01.22 18:18:00 -
[20]
Some interesting facts about this thread:
Longest post: FinnAgain Zero (6588 characters) Total Posts: 398 Person with the most posts: FinnAgain Zero with 56 (14.1%)
56 post FinnAgain. I am pretty sure you have made your point. You think there is absolutely nothing wrong with the situation with jump bridges. So do the rest of the EVE community a favor and shut your pie hole and give it a rest.
Or if you prefer leet speak... STFU!
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